It was back in 2004 when I first discovered Small Flying Arts. Then I was building my Sopwith Batboat in 1/20 scale, as a CO2 powered free flight model, for the coming Interscale competition in England.
The model was a flop as a flyer and got converted to electric RC woth the coming of small light RC systems a few years later.
As such it flew well enough for many years, even being somewhat underpowered. It had already suffered some damage during free flight attempts. Additional research and documentation over the years revealed a number of scale accuracy issues as well, so eventually the thought of rebuilding it became firmly stuck in my head.
Now, 20+ years later, I am building it again. The rebuild started a few years ago and was documented in the original HPA forum, but all that is gone now.
So I intend to continue from there and perhaps revisit the older posts and pictures, when time permits.
to paraphrase the famous disco song: "You should be building, yeah"...
The Batboat is my current project and has come at a stop in recent days, due to understandable reasons ;)
Current status, more or less as it was a couple of months ago. Started with covering, did the two rudders and an aileron.
Currently rather cold to continue (I ventilate as I use dope and thinners for covering) so it will have to wait for a bit later
Plenty of other things to do though, currently working on the dummy Green engine.
The old one from 2004 was almost exclusively made out of balsa. This time, because of the same bad habit I inherited from Mike M. there is plenty of polystyrene externally. Very thin though and the balsa base is hollowed out as much as possible to reduce weight
Close up on the motor base made of plywood.
The motor is fixed to a basswood beam, secured with the larger screw.
The beam is inserted into the plywood base and has 4 screws at the front, for thrust adjustment, up-down and right-left, about 3 degrees in either direction.
Being a pusher I hope it does not need a lot of additional fixing.
The top of the dummy engine is removable to allwo more access.
The BL motor wires go down to the hull along the rear right motor mount strut
What lovely models. I'm fascinated by your adjustable motor mount and may just steal some of the ideas behind it... ;D
The sub-forum description states "small" scale RC models... at the risk of starting a legal-speak argument, how "small" is "small"? I'm about to start building an own-design 1/12 scale Fairey Swordfish (about 45") - does that count as "small"?
Steve
Hi Steve,
I sent you a PM after you posted. Did you get it or did you miss it?
George
Parallel to the forum, some aeromodelling needs to be done as well...
My aim is to have the model finished and flown by April. But I also need a proper documentation drawing, which I am in the process of finishing. Next step is to have it validated, to be acceptable for contest use.
So, more PC time for now.
But I am close to finishing it. Here is the (almost) finished side view of the Batboat.
Great build thread George. The adjustable motor beam is a brilliant idea. Like Steve I maybe pinching that at some point ... (I have a CO2 Supermarine Walrus idea I want to do again at some point and that would solve few issues)
Look forward to seeing the rest of the build when you get a chance, as you say, forum aside aeromodelling is why we are all here ;D
Always enjoy your approach George, to both duplicating the structure while keeping it light and your ingenious engineering solutions.
I hope you are able to enjoy some more building time.
John
Hi George,
Always liked this model and it is great to see it being built again. Could you tell me the thrust angle of the motor and does the model need up elevator as you apply power. I have a Free Flight model with a similar layout and could use some advice on thrust lines.
Thanks, Dave
Hi Dave,
The motor in my first one was set at 0 degrees. I never went through the trouble of adjusting the thrust angles, it was not easy to do afterwards inside the dummy engine.
Yes, it did require up elevator, as a matter of fact, I added some mix of throttle to elevator. It did not help that the model was somewhat nose heavy too, but I had little place in the rear to conceal any ballast. So (wrong) I used up elevator more that I should.
With the new one I hope for improvements.
The weight distribution should be better, I moved the RC components as far to the rear as I could. They are still located in front of the CG, but less so.
The battery too.
And the ability to add some downthrust should help too.
We'll see...
Side view drawing finished, now to finish the top view.
George
So, yes, I split the messages on thrust settings for pushers, they deserve their own thread in the Model Aerodynamics board.
Not much new to report on the Batboat for now, except for a very important step.
I finished the drawings and after some adjustments and corrections I got them validated too (thanks to BMFA, Rich and of course Mike), so I can proceed with the building without worrying about changes in the future.
Covering can be resumed now...
At last, some progress.
Started covering on thw wing panels.
I am using pre-shrunk white esaki, shiny side out.
Bottom side done first, with the wing sitting on a base, to keep it parallel (forgot to take a picture of this, will do.
Thinner brushed through the tissue, tissue pressed evenly during drying using a piece of balsa.
The wing tip segment is done with a separate piece of tissue, due to the doble curvature there.
Trimming the edges for overlapping around the wingtip.
and last for now, although it preceeds covering, the pre-shrinking.
Some more tissue pieces are needed, so more are getting pre-shrunk.
Tissue glued on with UHU stick glue. Then full wet with water, left to dry.
cut from frame and ready to use.
First picture for a friend... The result of pre-shrinking. Every wrinkle dissappears. even the fold lines.
The base for covering of the bottom wing side. Stabilises the flimsy structure and ensures it is "parallel" during and after covering.
When the bottom side is done, the top is much easier as the wing sits properly flat.
Covering completed a couple of days ago, everything was shrunk with alcohol.
Alcohol is indeed much milder than water when it comes to shrinking, just the thing for delicate structures.
First coat of dope given on all surfaces today, tomorrow the second coat.
Quite satisfied so far.
Next comes the painting and the attempt to simulate the pioneer look of the original.
Final steps prior to painting of the flying surfaces.
The weather here at the moment is not ideal for spraying, much less for experimenting a new finish.
So, other small tasks are proceeding instead.
The model was put once again onto the alignment jig, in order to define the fastening position for the scale radiators to the center struts.
In my previous model the radiators were simply glued on to the struts. Due to the limited rigidity when the top wing moved a bit compared to the bottom, the radiators would get knocked loose. After losing them twice, I figured I would make a more secure fastening. IT might even add some stifness as a diagonal brace to the front and rear struts.
The engine bearers on the other hand are more than adeqately rigid. The diagonal front struts secure them well in position. The only problem? They have to be removable, to allow the top hull decking to come out.
The struts have carbon pins that slide into the engine bearers, so are very easy to remove - reposition.
I modified the dummy engine into a two-part affair, allowing me to finish the model for flying and add all the detail I want later (typically of me, just a day before the competition day).
And started with varnishing of the wooden parts, the tail boom got the first coat of three.
Now, if only I had a new air compressor as promised...Should be ready soon...
George
Your skill level is so much higher than mine, I don't have the patience.
When you shrink your tissue, do you coat it with anything while still on the frame? I usually give mine a coat of 80-20, 90-10 (thinner to nitrate) and let it sit while I built the model, nitrate mostly stops shirking in about a week and I found that it would still shrink just enough to take out the odd little wrinkle after covering and it would let me use VERY light structures without warping.
That fuselage is absolutely gorgeous! Well....the whole plane is actually.
Beautiful work George. I really like the detailed careful use of carbon fibre to reinforce and act as locating pegs.
Another work of art.
John
Thank you all...
Quote from: Garry on Feb 18, 2026, 09:21 PMWhen you shrink your tissue, do you coat it with anything while still on the frame?
Garry, no.
I pre-shrink with water.
Let it dry then remove from the frame.
Cover with dope and thinners.
Shrink with alcohol.
Then two coats 50% thinned dope and that is it.
And then paint of course.
Worth mentioning, I am using Esaki, which might make a difference compared to other covering tissues.
This has worked fine for me for years.
George
You, sir, are a master of the art. The level of detail is amazing. However, I think the tappet clearance on the third cylinder on the old model is a little off. We wouldn't want to burn any valves, would we? ;-)
Thanks lincoln and welcome!
I was having serious power problems with the old one, that is why I decided to build a new lighter one...
Had I checked the engine and thus found the error you spotted, and had I corrected it, I might have spared many hours spent making the new one ;D
George
Varnishing of the various wooden parts is proceeding. It takes some time to apply three coats with 2 days drying in between.
Meanwhile other small items are getting done and out of the way, such as the radiators, now their fixing complete.
So, radiators and tip floats are waiting for some copper paint.
Your Quasimodo compressor ;D will be ready until Saturday.
and as evidenced from the last picture, the fabric paint covering is next.
A number of possible paints had been bought 2-3 years ago (optimism...) so now came the time to make tests.
The only color reference for the Batboat is the color plates in the Kenneth Munson booklets, "Pioneer Aircraft..." and "Flying Boats...".
Of course, their accuracy and correctness leaves very much for discussion. Not to mention the drawing itself which is unbelievably wrong.
But as far as colour goes, it is better than nothing, so that is what I will present for documentation.
The covering is described as unbleached linen.
So, the 6 candidates were brushed on a sample wing. 3rd picture shows the sample on the wing of my previous model (one of the few parts that survived intact).
The last picture shows the samples after a second coat was brushed on. Too lazy to take out the airbrush for the initial choice.
And the winner is: 3rd from the left, Vallejo 71.132 aged white. It will be given some extra shadow treatment but it will be the main base colour.
Comments and suggestions are most welcome at this stage.
George
PS. Just saw the message Nick! Great, as you can well imagine, I can hardly wait at the point we are now...
Hello again...
a variety of reasons has led to a significant delay in painting the flying surface parts by nearly a month.
But I did finally manage to get to it this week. Not finished yet, just the main base color.
I had some serious problems with my airbrush which was supposed to do the job, ended up using my older but eventually much more reliable one, luckily with no serious problems on the painted parts. Just a lot of frustration and fiddling around and waisting time.
One thing about using acrylic colors is that when the coat is full, the covering sags a lot and takes a lot of hours to recover to taught condition. This does look scary at first, but you get used to it and hope things will go back to normal again.
And here is the resulting mess after the first coat was finished...
The hull is finished, waiting for the lower wings and struts to come in place.
All control cables (threads) are in position, the only thing missing is the pilot's seat and pilot. Not really necessary for test flying, which must take place soon as time is running out at an alarming rate.
George
Next step is a rather crazy one. Naturally...
Each rib and wood in contact with the tissue has to be masked and a fine spray of darker color airbrushed on, to make some shading fitting to the original fabric.
17 ribs per wing panel, 2 sides, 4 wings, that is plenty of rib tape masks...
That is true dedication. ;D
Good luck finishing the model. It looks museum quality.
John
Quote from: OZPAF on Mar 28, 2026, 02:27 AMIt looks museum quality.
Better than that, Γ's model will fly (of course it will) and museum models don't.
I can just concur with the other comments - a truly magnificent model!
Quote from: TheLurkerBetter than that, Γ's model will fly (of course it will) and museum models don't.
Yes, that's the essential point here. The magic, impossible-seeming point.
Stephen.
The wand chooses the wizard you know....
:) :) :) thanks everybody...
Well, time is running short and it has yet to get finished and flown, so too soon to celebrate...
One of my all-time favorite cartoons was published in Newsweek magazine (I think) only prior to the 2004 Athens Olympic Games. I wish I could find it again... It depicted a 100m men run running and sweating like crazy and just 10 meters ahead of them were workers running as well, painting the separation lines for the different lanes.
A satire about the doubts of whether the facilities would be finished in time. They were, but very close to the deadline. Wish I could find this cartoon, did not keep it then.
Similarily, in 3 weeks is the BMFA Indoor Scale Nationals and the Batboat is supposed to be my entry for the RC event. So work needs to be intensified...
Finally finished the painting/shading yesterday. A lot of masking was needed.
The result is difficult to judge yet. The biggest difficulty is making all parts similar in terms of shading. I started with the rudders and probably a bit too light, so I have to do these again.
Here is the horizontal tail.
I have tried this method before in my initial Batboat, but got a confirmation and some further advice from Pavel Stranik and Martin Huk, thanks to both...
Wingpanel before and after (wingtip covering wringles went away when everything was completely dry)
And all the parts after unmasking...
Two wing panels eventually warped after painting so I had to wet them again (thorougly) and let them dry under support. Seem to have recovered.
and a test fit of the horizontal tail. I like the color combination...
Quote from: g_kandylakis on Apr 03, 2026, 02:39 PM...3 weeks is the BMFA Indoor Scale Nationals and the Batboat is supposed to be my entry for the RC event. So work needs to be intensified...
I for one would
much rather wait a year than see you make a deadline induced cock-up. It's far too nice a piece of work to have that happen.
I agree with Lurk, George. It's far to good to be rushed.
John
Hi Lurk, yes, I would too if I were to risk the model, but on the other hand if one is to mess up, one will, with or with no pressure...
And one year is a long time...
Anyway, there is little worry that the model will not be finished in time, more that it will not be properly flown prior to the Nationals.
I now nave only one chance left, on the Sunday before that Nationals weekend. Still plenty to do, although quite a lot has been finished too.
Has some critical tasks finished today, went well so I am quite satisfied that I did not mess up at this stage.
After spraying the shading the covering looked a bit dull, exactly like what it was, a tissue covered model. I went ahead and brushed a satin varnish coat (same make, Vallejo, to avoid any surprises) and this brought a much more lively result. The slight sheen is more realistic in the eye.
wing assembly was next, lower pair first to the hull.
Then the center wing struts and the top wing assembly.
Last and most crucial, the remaining struts. I could have used 2 extra pairs of hands for that. The difficulty is to insert the struts in place without puncturing the tissue. Zero damage so very happy...
And the most dreaded part of all, the rigging and final alignment.
The rigging is functional, it keeps everything together and aligned. After many adjustments, measurements and checks on the master jig I felt confident enough to finalise the rigging with CA. No going back after that, unless I start removing rigging sections...
Last picture shows the old and the new. The right pair of wings from 2004 in front of the new one. The color difference is more than apparent, overall I like the new one much better in terms of overall effect.
The colour complexity leaves something to be desired, when it comes to judging, as do the markings (none...) but that was my choice from the begining.
Now to rest my nerves, cover the wing panels with some paper and paint the rigging and fittings. Next the tail can be glued on.
Things to do or finish, apart from assembly:
pilot
pilot seat
dummy motor
transport base for my box
documentation
George
The hull/fuselage always catches my eye. the varnished finish and the well balanced shape.
The wing detailing and rigging is also very impressive.
Will you have time for test flights.?
John
Very impressive demonstration of your control over the materials and procceses needed to produce these masterpieces!
Thanks John, Konrad...
K, you are right in a sense, there is a considerable amount of specialisation that was accumulated over many years, so that helps in that direction, but for similarily sized models only, of course.
As an example, it became necessary to drill some tiny 0,4mm holes in a hard to reach place.
I do most of my drilling with carbide drill bits, have quite a set of them, from 0,1 to 4,0mm in 0,1mm increments. Plus some in 0,05mm increments,
But the 1/8" shaft was too thick for this application, plus the carbide bits brake very easily, zero bending tolerance.
So, I did my own 0,3 and 0,4mm drils, broke the ends clear and glued them to piano wire extensions with 0,5/0,3 mm aluminium tube lengths (0,6-0,4mm for the 0,4mm). Some CA and I had a long flexible drill. Took some time and patience to drill the plastic parts I wanted to, but it worked in the end.
A fine task, but this is not always the case. Some time it can get pretty un-elegant.
For example, a wing panel somehow got quite distorted after painting. No gentle spraying or treating it carefully. Under the fauchet it went for a bath. When completely soaked it was pined to a flat balsa base to dry.
I use the same delicate application of water for my pre-shrinking...
I mentioned masking the wings for the rigging painting in my previous post. Here is the masking and why I did it.
No amount of care can prevent a mess-up. A paint loaded paintbrush only needs to slightly move out of the rigging and you have paint droplets flying everywhere. Were it not for the masks...
Coming futher along, aileron control cables.
A solid base was made to place the model nose down, 20gr. weights were hanged to get even tension on all 4 aileron pull cables and when sure everything was aligned, tiny amounts of CA to finalise the "cables". The outer cables were done later at a lower tension to avoid distorting the first ones.
An immediate test afterwards showed a very responsive aileron control. It helps to have the parts moving as freely as possible. The pull-pull system worked well.
Next, no photos yet, the tail assembly.
George
That's a dedicated approach George - from extended small drills, masks for rigging painting and working aileron pull control cables.
Top marks for effort and a clever practical approach.
John
Thanks John,
a few days later and it finally is in one piece, ready for test flying. Just a quick photo for now.
Weight will be slightly under 80 grams giving a wing loading of about 8,3 gr/dm2. I was hoping for 8,0 but that will do too. The balance point seems to be ok and I can still move the battery around a bit.
Still to do for the model,
dummy engine
pilot and seat
some minor decorative rigging and painting
George