Last weekends flying in Wales with Pete Fardell and his Bleriot has really reignited my interest in Edwardian aircraft.There's something very appealing about building these aircraft and getting them to fly so huge thanks to Pete for suggesting I bring the Bleriot along.
This is a project I've been umming and ahhing over for several years, put off largely by the very short nose and the thought of a lead propeller to make it work but I've had a bit of think and printed out the 3 view I have at 1/12th scale and it may just work.
Like the Bleriot at Shuttleworth the Deperdussin is also an ex school aeroplane and used at Hendon until 1914 when it was sold after being damaged in a crash I have lots of pictures so this will be the subject for the model.
It's all still a bit wishful thinking but maybe starting a thread will help me along with it. ( I still have the Sopwith Dove to finish off first but good to get thinking about on a day to hot to sit in the workshop)
Scaling the drawing to 1/12 gives me a model about the same size as the Bleriot XI though the chosen engine would be a GM300 so this would have to be. Weight conscious build, the GM300 powered Sopwith Dove is around 150g and is a 24" biplane so I'm hopeful I could do that.
Looking at the CG position on the Bleriot, I have it at 42% MAC with it's lifting tail, the Deperdussin has a much larger lifting tail so that may work in it's favour. Adding that 42% CG to my drawing it seems the bulk of the structure, undercarriage and wheels are ahead of this even if by a small amount so with a light rear end built more like an indoor model I might just get away with it. That is a very long fuselage ... ::)
If I can keep the weight down I think a GM300 should be fine ...unless anyone would like to sell me a Gasparin 300 3 cylinder Y type ??? ...
The long front skid also limits the prop size to under 8" where as the Bleriot flies well on a 9" prop but again I think that's OK and also shows the model would have to fairly big anyway to fit the GM300 and a usable prop size
All food for thought so don't expect to see the fuselage anytime soon but the very fact I have done this means this'll be the next one...hopefully
Excellent choice Chris!.
A few questions:
Wingspan?
Wing area?
There is also the 140mm Gasparin 3 cylinder in case you need more power...
1/12 is a bit too large for my taste but it will make a beautiful outdoor model.
As for the short nose, I wouldn't worry too much about the CG, this being a CO2 model...
George
Hi George
If I could find a 3 cylinder Gasparin for sale I would buy it and use it so if there any out there looking for a good home ?.
Wing span 28 3/4" wing area 163 sq inches or 1.13 sqft
That's 1057 cm2
Bleriot is similar at 172 sq in but the Dep has maybe 3x the area for the lifting tail
Lovely photos of the Bleriots in flight!
The late Georg Törnkvist built a beautiful model of the Shuttleworth Deperdussin powered by an electric motor, which can be seen here: https://indooraero.homeunix.net/deperdus.shtml (https://indooraero.homeunix.net/deperdus.shtml). It made some tentative flights tied to a string, but I don't think it ever flew free successfully. The lack of dihedral presumably made it very hard to trim. This model still exists in the collections of the Solna model flying club, although in parts and in need of renovation.
Thanks Anyun that is a wonderful model, presumably smaller than the 1/12th scale I'm thinking of. The lack of dihedral is something I anticipated could be an issue so I'm afraid my example will have a bit squeezed in along the lines of the Bleriot. While it may not be exactly scale I think I can do it without loosing the character of the aeroplane..well hopefully anyway
Good to hear the model is still in existence it looks beautifully made, hopefully one day it will be renovated
I have added an image of Georg's impressive Indoor Deperdussin from the Swedish site here, hope that is OK. It's quite inspirational to see how he constructed it, its a lovely rendition
Wow, that IS a very gorgeous model by the great Georg Törnkvist! Thanks for sharing.
And I'm very much looking forward to yours too Chris.
I've looked at that Deperdussin a lot too, but it probably isn't a very good bet for rubber (not that that's always stopped me in the past!)
I'm seriously considering this other one though. Not as pretty or pugnacious as yours but it has much better proportions for FF rubber, and even quite generous dihedral. It was flown by Marcel Issartier and there are a few pics to be found and this rather nice drawing.
(Maybe we should have a Deperdussin cook-up!)
That's a Deperdussin I hadn't seen before. Like you say, better suited for rubber than the Shuttleworth one. A Deperdussin cookup? Hm, tempting, although my building schedule is already rather crowded with projects.
Georg Törnkvist was fond of Deperdussins - in addition to the one shown in the photo he built several Monocoque racers. I have one of them, a peanut, at home. It needs some repair and a new pair of wheels, but otherwise it is in fairly good condition.
Nice find Pete, I have not come across that Deperdussin either. At this rate we'll be looking at Deperdussin's over Snowdonia next year ;D
I made the first steps today with the Deperdussin... research ;D
While I had the chance I took a quick trip up to Old Warden on the bike and photographed the original. A kindly Shuttleworth volunteer and fellow modeller allowed me get up close too and get some shots on the underside and the cockpit. The pilots seat is tiny, you don't so much sit in the aircraft ,more on it.
I photographed the Anzani engine but not sure if I'll do a proper dummy engine as I have 3 cylinder radial CO2 motor (G160TS) coming from Jiri at Old Motor, if anything there could always be a dummy head fitted round the Co2 inlet pipe but not sure at this stage.
The wheels are very light in construction much lighter built than the Bleriot though the same diameter though I think I'll use the same method I did for the Bleriot some years ago using fishing line spokes and rolled ply rim
So the Deperdussin project has taken a turn before it's even started....
I give you the G-160TS 3 cylinder radial CO2 motor fresh from Jiri Linka at old-engine-model (http://www.old-engine-model.com/en/274.gasparin-g-160-ts/). It is a gorgeous gem of an engine
I hardly need say it's a beautifully engineered motor, not cheap but then well made things often aren't, I only hope I can do it justice with my model
Huge thanks to Jiri for the quick delivery, much appreciated
I haven't run it yet , that'll be my treat in few days time hopefully but I note it takes more than an entire Sparklet bulb in its 12cm3 tank ...I might need to get another spare full CO2 cylinder to add the spare full cylinder I already have !!
What a little jewel it is.
I've spent the last few days making pilots primarily for this Deperdussin and for a 1/12 scale CO2 Bleriot XI as well
Theres more on that in the 'Pilots' thread - https://hpa.aeromodelling.gr/index.php?topic=355.0 (https://hpa.aeromodelling.gr/index.php?topic=355.0)
The expanded foam pilot will need his arm lowering but I have some spare and even a spare arm but I'll do that once he has a seat and indeed wheel to hold to.
I'm not sure I've ever built a model by doing the pilot first ::)
I had a first run with the new Gasparin G160TS this evening. It's a lovely sounding engine which sounds and feels like a similar output, maybe slightly more than the flat twin GM300T in the Bleriot XI