Does anyone know whether there is a plan available for JOD's Hat Band Coupe d'hiver model?
Yes I've seen one but can't remember where. It was National Free Flight Society Model of the Year 1970 so that would be a good place to start
https://www.freeflight.org/product-category/plans/
Quote from: billdennis747 on Jul 06, 2026, 03:34 PMYes I've seen one but can't remember where. It was National Free Flight Society Model of the Year 1970 so that would be a good place to start
https://www.freeflight.org/product-category/plans/
Thanks, Bill.
I couldn't see it there or on the AMA site
The search goes on!
I 'l have a look at the plans gallery backup later
Thanks, George
Well, for nothing actually.
Nothing in the old Plans Gallery, I am sorry to say.
George
Write to the author of this
https://www.modelaviation.com/What-to-Build
Follow up the contacts on the NFFS website; there is someone in charge of plans
I'll ask Gavin Manion
Here is a quote from the article....
"As far as I know, no drawings of the Hat Band are available"
..but he might have drawn one!
Ron
Yes, Gavin thinks there is no plan. So how did that chap who wrote the article build his? Contact him.
Quote from: billdennis747 on Jul 06, 2026, 10:58 PMYes, Gavin thinks there is no plan. So how did that chap who wrote the article build his? Contact him.
The guy in the article (Louis Joyner, I think) seems to say that he used the material from JOD's description in the 1970 Sympo report plus the three photos published. So maybe there is no plan and he just used "constructional outline drawings".
Before I contact the author, I think I might do some more research - for example, I'm sure there are photos of JOD and Hatband in AeroModeller which might be clearer than those in the Sympo article.
For those interested, here's an extract from that report
It's frustrating because as the fog of my memory clears, I remember John sending me a sketch of the model for some reason. Yes there are photos in AM in the 60s when there were annual reports on the group trips to the French contests.
Bill
Thanks Bill. Some of those photos should help getting the fuselage length correct as well as the dimensions of the tailplane.
One thing that I'm curious about in the Louis Joyner article is the idea of the front fuselage being completely sheeted in 3/32" balsa. The article says:
"The fuselage construction for both models was similar. The front section that contains the rubber motor is a square box made from 3/32-inch balsa (use the lightest wood you can find!). The corners of the box are 3/32-inch square balsa (use the hardest you can find). These longerons extend all the way to the rear. Balsa spacers tie the four longerons together. The Hat Band used vertical and horizontal spacers. ... After covering, the airframe weight[was] a rather porky 89 grams for the Hat Band. Most of this excess was from the 3/32-inch balsa that was used for the front fuselage section. (Rules state that you must use the original material thickness or thicker.)"
These details do not seem to be derivable from the three photos in the Sympo article, so I wonder where Joyner got that information.
My recollection of JOD designs (eg Borderline, Delinquent and Teacher's Pet) is that his fuselages were usually stick and tissue and any "surplus" weight would go into diagonal spacers rather than creating balsa tubes. But maybe with 70 gr available he went the whole hog with sheeting. But I am surprised that the sheeting wasn't 1/16" (like Derl Morley used for Garter Knight, Bill and Shirley Horton used for Tyra and Dave White used for Baron Knight) or even 1/32". I'm also surprised since JOD mentions using the pylon for ballasting the model - putting it there suggests that the model was underweight and I'd be surprised if that would happen if 3/32"sheet was used.
I think I can work out the diameter of the prop from the pictures - because it folds under the wing but what I can't see is the pitch of the prop. Maybe that is mentioned in those articles that John wrote for AM in the early 2010s, after he retired from competition flying.
Anyway, I'll do some more research and then write to Mr Joyner to see what he has to say (I like to have got as far as I can on my own before asking for help :) )
Interesting structure details. I'm surprised at the 3/32" forward fuselage - John knew all about saving weight but it should be possible to build down to weight; there were no trackers or timers then.
One thing I'd challenge is the hard longerons. No need - each one should weigh between 0.9g and 1g. Otherwise the balance point shifts back, as does the wing. Perhaps that's why John used a heavier front end. One thing is for sure, he would have had a reason that he could justify at length!
Bill
Finally, I wonder why this was model of the year? I think Dave White's Baron Knight seemed more successful, and ubiquitous. Incidentally, when I did a My Coupe, I realised it was essentially a BK with minor changes.
My guess is that the Hatband was a straightforward scaling-down of his 50g Wakefield so it might be worth looking at that too.
I had a look through my copy of Free Flight Quarterly Coupe D'Hiver Special but could not find anything on Hat Band.
Thanks Dave
Some further developments.
While making some researchers into Hatband on the Internet, I came across a memorial website for JOD (JOD.org.uk).
This gave me an email address to John's son, Robert and I wrote to him asking if he can give me any help in relation to Hatband.
Robert responded very promptly and indicated that there were a huge number of boxes of material that now resided at his place which he had not yet been through and catalogued. There may be some material in that.
Obviously, I am not in a position to offer to help Robert with this task since he is in the UK and I'm in OZ. However, it would be a pity if this treasure trove of free flight material were to be lost. I wonder if any of our UK HPA members might feel moved to offer assistance to Robert in going through John's collection of material. There seems to be at least one whole box of plans and it would be great if those could be scanned and put up in HPA.
Meanwhile, I will continue my hunt for information.
I have continued my searches by emailing Mike Woodhouse and Martin Dilly to see if they had any clues for finding a plan/drawing/details of Hatband.
Very kindly, they both replied within a few hours. Neither had much info to add, although Mike corrected my understanding of a "freewheel/fold" prop mechanism that JOD mentions in his 1970 Sympo article. It isn't a Montreal stop, but is a prop with a freewheel that also has a tension stop. The idea is to miss the few turns at the end of the motor run when the part of the prop hook that hits the stop on the back of the nose block clunks on the stop but keeps on turning, but more slowly. That can lead to uneven folding and a bad transition. The idea is that the freewheel will happen on the first touch and release the power - then the prop shaft engages with the stop and the prop hub stops turning and the prop blades fold cleanly and in the same place every time. I must try this sometime, even if I don't build a Hatband.
I also asked Martin and Mike for email addresses for some other modellers to contact who might be able to help. I will now follow up with them (except perhaps for Dave Hipperson, because he may already have been contacted by Bill Dennis already according tho Martin's response).
PS No reply to my email from Louis Joyner yet.
Yes I contacted Dave but he couldn't help
Quote from: billdennis747 on Jul 13, 2026, 10:36 AMYes I contacted Dave but he couldn't help
That's a pity, but many thanks for trying that. I won't ask Dave then on this subject!
I do have one other lead - Steve Philpott was mentioned in the 1980s as a friend of JOD (courtesy of being able to text search my electronic versions of AM). So I have emailed him (Mike Woodhouse gave me his email address).
My reply in post #17 might be misleading - that is a form of freewheel/fold device, but I don't think that it is what JOD meant. I had a niggling doubt and thought that he may have mentioned this device in his articles from 2014+ in the relaunched AeroModeller and I was right. In his second article (in issue 923) he described it and thr is a good drawing and diagram.
I attach a copy of the relevant page